{"id":2229462,"date":"2026-04-23T14:20:00","date_gmt":"2026-04-23T18:20:00","guid":{"rendered":""},"modified":"2026-04-24T10:59:55","modified_gmt":"2026-04-24T14:59:55","slug":"what-the-health-443-rfk-robert-kennedy-jr-congress-hearings-april-23-2026","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/podcast\/what-the-health-443-rfk-robert-kennedy-jr-congress-hearings-april-23-2026\/","title":{"rendered":"RFK Jr. vs. Congress"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-people-container--single wp-block-kff-shared-people-container--bio wp-block-kff-shared-people-container\">\n\t\t<h3 class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-people-container__title\">\n\t\tThe Host\t<\/h3>\n\t\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-people-container__cards\">\n\t\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__image-container\">\n\t\t\t<img decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__image\" src=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/8\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg\" alt=\"Julie Rovner photo\" srcset=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/8\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg 1100w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/8\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=150,150 150w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/8\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=500,500 500w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/8\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=768,768 768w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/8\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=120,120 120w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/8\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=834,834 834w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 767px) 100vw, 500px\" \/>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\n\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__meta-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__name\">Julie Rovner<\/div>\n\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__affiliation\">KFF Health News<\/div>\n\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__social wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__x\">\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/jrovner\" title=\"@jrovner\">\n\t\t\t\t\t@jrovner\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__social wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__bluesky\">\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/bsky.app\/profile\/julierovner.bsky.social\" title=\"@julierovner.bsky.social\">\n\t\t\t\t\t@julierovner.bsky.social\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__social wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__link\">\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/news\/author\/julie-rovner\/\"> \n\t\t\t\t\tRead Julie&#039;s stories.\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__bio\">\n\t\t\t\tJulie Rovner is chief Washington correspondent and host of KFF Health News\u2019 weekly health policy news podcast, &quot;What the Health?&quot; A noted expert on health policy issues, Julie is the author of the critically praised reference book &quot;Health Care Politics and Policy A to Z,&quot; now in its third edition.\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<p>Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. completed his marathon tour of House and Senate committees this week to defend President Donald Trump\u2019s proposed budget for his department, but he got grilled on lots of non-budget matters as well, most notably his proposed changes to the childhood vaccine schedule.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Meanwhile, Trump made some of his own health policy, signing an executive order to facilitate the use of hallucinogens to treat mental health conditions. That action came just days after it was suggested to him in a text message from podcaster\/influencer Joe Rogan, who was present in the Oval Office for the signing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>This week\u2019s panelists are Julie Rovner of KFF Health News, Victoria Knight of Bloomberg Government, Alice Miranda Ollstein of Politico, and Sheryl Gay Stolberg of The New York Times.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-people-container--transparent wp-block-kff-shared-people-container--threerow wp-block-kff-shared-people-container--credits wp-block-kff-shared-people-container\">\n\t\t<h3 class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-people-container__title\">\n\t\tPanelists\t<\/h3>\n\t\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-people-container__cards\">\n\t\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__image-container\">\n\t\t\t<img decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__image\" src=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/8\/2023\/01\/Knight2019_988sq.jpg\" alt=\"Victoria Knight photo\" srcset=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/8\/2023\/01\/Knight2019_988sq.jpg 988w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/8\/2023\/01\/Knight2019_988sq.jpg?resize=150,150 150w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/8\/2023\/01\/Knight2019_988sq.jpg?resize=500,500 500w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/8\/2023\/01\/Knight2019_988sq.jpg?resize=768,768 768w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/8\/2023\/01\/Knight2019_988sq.jpg?resize=120,120 120w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/8\/2023\/01\/Knight2019_988sq.jpg?resize=834,834 834w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 767px) 100vw, 500px\" \/>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\n\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__meta-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__name\">Victoria Knight<\/div>\n\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__affiliation\">Bloomberg Government<\/div>\n\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__social wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__x\">\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/victoriaregisk\" title=\"@victoriaregisk\">\n\t\t\t\t\t@victoriaregisk\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__image-container\">\n\t\t\t<img decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__image\" src=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/8\/2023\/01\/Ollstein_800sq.jpg\" alt=\"Alice Miranda Ollstein photo\" srcset=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/8\/2023\/01\/Ollstein_800sq.jpg 800w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/8\/2023\/01\/Ollstein_800sq.jpg?resize=150,150 150w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/8\/2023\/01\/Ollstein_800sq.jpg?resize=500,500 500w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/8\/2023\/01\/Ollstein_800sq.jpg?resize=768,768 768w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/8\/2023\/01\/Ollstein_800sq.jpg?resize=120,120 120w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 767px) 100vw, 500px\" \/>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\n\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__meta-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__name\">Alice Miranda Ollstein<\/div>\n\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__affiliation\">Politico<\/div>\n\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__social wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__x\">\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/AliceOllstein\" title=\"@AliceOllstein\">\n\t\t\t\t\t@AliceOllstein\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__social wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__bluesky\">\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/bsky.app\/profile\/alicemiranda.bsky.social\" title=\"@alicemiranda.bsky.social\">\n\t\t\t\t\t@alicemiranda.bsky.social\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__social wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__link\">\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/www.politico.com\/staff\/alice-miranda-ollstein\"> \n\t\t\t\t\tRead Alice&#039;s stories.\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__image-container\">\n\t\t\t<img decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__image\" src=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/8\/2025\/12\/Stolberg_768sq.jpg\" alt=\"Sheryl Gay Stolberg photo\" srcset=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/8\/2025\/12\/Stolberg_768sq.jpg 768w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/8\/2025\/12\/Stolberg_768sq.jpg?resize=150,150 150w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/8\/2025\/12\/Stolberg_768sq.jpg?resize=500,500 500w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/8\/2025\/12\/Stolberg_768sq.jpg?resize=120,120 120w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 767px) 100vw, 500px\" \/>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\n\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__meta-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__name\">Sheryl Gay Stolberg<\/div>\n\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__affiliation\">The New York Times<\/div>\n\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__social wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__x\">\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/SherylNYT\" title=\"@SherylNYT\">\n\t\t\t\t\t@SherylNYT\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__social wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__link\">\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/www.nytimes.com\/by\/sheryl-gay-stolberg\"> \n\t\t\t\t\tRead Sheryl&#039;s stories.\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<p>Among the takeaways from this week\u2019s episode:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>There were fewer fireworks than expected during Kennedy\u2019s four-day, whirlwind tour of Capitol Hill. One thing that was clear is that Kennedy got the political memo that he is to watch his vaccine rhetoric and keep the focus on politically palatable topics such as chronic disease and healthy eating. Still, there were episodes of indignation and grandstanding, from the secretary and from lawmakers. Kennedy also sometimes struggled to defend administration proposals to cut funding.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Among members who pressed Kennedy on vaccines was Sen. Bill Cassidy (R-La.), who is facing a difficult primary challenge. Cassidy, a physician, has in the past clashed with Kennedy over vaccines and has been targeted by the Make America Healthy Again movement. In hearings, however, Cassidy led with questions on abortion issues, which fit more aptly into his red-state politics. Meanwhile, though Cassidy\u2019s Senate seat is considered at risk, it\u2019s not clear that the MAHA muscle on the ground is living up to the threat.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth has decreed that annual flu shots will no longer be required for active-duty and reserve military service members. This appears to be a sign that the balance between public health and personal liberty is tilting toward the latter more than ever. It also is contrary to conventional wisdom that the flu, unchecked, could take a toll on the armed services. Minimizing the threat of flu among the troops has been viewed as a readiness issue.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Meanwhile, National Institutes of Health Director Jay Bhattacharya, in his role filling in as leader of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, has reportedly canceled publication of a study that found the covid vaccine dramatically reduced hospitalizations and emergency room visits. News reports indicate that Bhattacharya objected to the study\u2019s methodology, but CDC officials say it\u2019s the same methodology used in the past.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Also this week, in the latest installment of our \u201cHow Would You Fix It?\u201d series, Rovner interviews doctor, author, and Harvard public health professor David Blumenthal about his ideas for making the health system work better.<\/p>\n\n\n<div\n\tclass=\"wp-block wp-block-kff-shared-newsletter  wp-block-kff-shared-newsletter--background-white\"\n\tdata-type=\"kff-shared\/newsletter\"\n\tdata-align=\"center\"\n>\n\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-newsletter__container\">\n\t\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-newsletter__content\">\n\t\t\t<img \n\t\t\t\tsrc=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/plugins\/kff-shared\/dist\/\/images\/newsletter-icon.png\" \n\t\t\t\talt=\"Newsletter Icon\"\n\t\t\t\tclass=\"wp-block-kff-shared-newsletter__img\"\n\t\t\t\/>\n\t\t\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-newsletter__text\">\n\t\t\t\t<h4 class=\"newsletter__title\">\n\t\t\t\t\tEmail Sign-Up\t\t\t\t<\/h4>\n\t\t\t\t<p class=\"newsletter__description\">\n\t\t\t\t\tSubscribe to KFF Health News&#039; free Morning Briefing.\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-newsletter__form\">\n\t\t\t\n<form\n\taction=\"\/email-signup\/\"\n\tclass=\"kaiser-hubspot-mini-signup-form\"\n\tmethod=\"post\"\n>\n\t<input type=\"hidden\" id=\"kaiser_hubspot_nonce\" name=\"kaiser_hubspot_nonce\" value=\"4d629ac695\" \/><input type=\"hidden\" name=\"_wp_http_referer\" value=\"\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/2229462\" \/>\t\t\t\t<label\n\t\tclass=\"kaiser-hubspot-mini-signup-form__label--email\"\n\t\tfor=\"kaiser-hubspot-mini-signup-form-email\"\n\t>\n\t\t<span class=\"screen-reader-text\">\n\t\t\tYour Email Address\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t<input\n\t\t\tautocomplete=\"email\"\n\t\t\tclass=\"kaiser-hubspot-mini-signup-form__input--email\"\n\t\t\tid=\"kaiser-hubspot-mini-signup-form-email\"\n\t\t\tname=\"kaiser_hubspot_email\"\n\t\t\ttype=\"email\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tplaceholder=\"Your email address\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t<\/label>\n\t<button class=\"kaiser-hubspot-mini-signup-form__submit\">\n\t\tSign Up\t<\/button>\n<\/form>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n\n<p>Plus for \u201cextra credit\u201d the panelists suggest health policy stories they read this week that they think you should read, too:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Julie Rovner:<\/strong> The Washington Post\u2019s \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.washingtonpost.com\/health\/2026\/04\/20\/candy-soda-ban-food-stamps-snap-maha\/\">KitKat, Gatorade or Granola Bars? What\u2019s Banned Under New SNAP Rules Is Mixed<\/a>,\u201d by Rachel Roubein.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Sheryl Gay Stolberg<\/strong>: Politico\u2019s \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.politico.com\/news\/2026\/04\/21\/trump-surgeon-general-casey-means-abortion-psychedelics-00881954\">Trump\u2019s Surgeon General Pick Faces Mounting GOP Opposition<\/a>,\u201d by Amanda Friedman and Alice Miranda Ollstein.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Alice Miranda Ollstein:<\/strong> The Washington Post\u2019s \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.washingtonpost.com\/science\/2026\/04\/19\/science-research-funding-cuts-trump\/\">Where U.S. Science Has Been Hit Hardest After Trump\u2019s First Year<\/a>,\u201d by Carolyn Y. Johnson, Lydia Sidhom, and Susan Svrluga.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Victoria Knight:<\/strong> The New York Times\u2019 \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.nytimes.com\/2026\/04\/22\/us\/politics\/doctors-insurers-arbitration.html\">A $440,000 Breast Reduction: How Doctors Cashed In on a Consumer Protection Law<\/a>,\u201d by Sarah Kliff and Margot Sanger-Katz.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Also mentioned in this week\u2019s podcast:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Politico\u2019s \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.politico.com\/news\/2026\/04\/20\/cassidy-senate-midterms-maha-louisiana-00879476\">Set on Ousting Cassidy, MAHA Faces First Midterms Test<\/a>,\u201d by Alice Miranda Ollstein and Liz Crampton.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>The Washington Post\u2019s \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.washingtonpost.com\/health\/2026\/04\/22\/covid-vaccine-report-blocked-cdc-mmwr\/\">CDC Won\u2019t Publish Report Showing Covid Shots Cut Likelihood of Hospital Visits<\/a>,\u201d by Lena H. Sun.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>The Journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics\u2019 \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/publications.aap.org\/pediatrics\/article-abstract\/106\/6\/1307\/63234\/Annual-Summary-of-Vital-Statistics-Trends-in-the?redirectedFrom=fulltext\">Annual Summary of Vital Statistics: Trends in the Health of Americans During the 20th Century<\/a>,\u201d by Bernard Guyer, Mary Anne Freedman, Donna M. Strobino, and Edward J. Sondik.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<details class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-expandable block--expandable has-label\"\n\t\t\tid=\"transcript\"\n\t\tstyle=\"--expandable-kicker-bg: #004b87;\"\n>\n\t\t\t<summary class=\"expandable__title-label\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span\n\t\t\t\t\tclass=\"expandable__label \"\n\t\t\t\t>\n\t\t\t\t\tclick to open the transcript\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<svg width=\"25\" height=\"24\" viewBox=\"0 0 25 24\" fill=\"none\" xmlns=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg\">\n<path d=\"M4 8L12.5 17L21 8\" stroke=\"black\" stroke-width=\"3\" \/>\n<\/svg>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span\n\t\t\t\t\tclass=\"expandable__title\"\n\t\t\t\t\tstyle=\"font-size: ;\"\n\t\t\t\t>\n\t\t\t\t\t\tTranscript: RFK Jr. vs. Congress\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/summary>\n\t\t<div class=\"expandable__content--container\">\n\t\t<div class=\"expandable__content\">\n\t\t\t\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><em>[<\/em><strong><em>Editor\u2019s note:<\/em><\/strong><em>\u00a0This transcript was generated using both transcription software and a human\u2019s light touch. It has been edited for style and clarity.]<\/em>\u00a0<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Julie Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Hello, from KFF Health News and WAMU Public Radio in Washington, D.C. Welcome to&nbsp;<em>What the Health?<\/em>&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;Julie Rovner, chief Washington correspondent for KFF Health News.&nbsp;And,&nbsp;as always,&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;joined by some of the best and smartest health reporters covering Washington.&nbsp;We\u2019re&nbsp;taping this week on Thursday,&nbsp;April 23,&nbsp;at 10&nbsp;a.m.&nbsp;As always, news happens fast, and things might have changed by the time you hear this. So here we go.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\">Today, we are joined&nbsp;via&nbsp;video conference by&nbsp;Sheryl&nbsp;Gay Stolberg&nbsp;of&nbsp;The New York Times.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Sheryl Gay Stolberg:<\/strong>&nbsp;Hi,&nbsp;Julie.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:&nbsp;<\/strong>Alice Miranda&nbsp;Ollstein&nbsp;of Politico.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Alice Miranda&nbsp;Ollstein:<\/strong>&nbsp;Hello.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;And we welcome back to the&nbsp;podcast&nbsp;my former&nbsp;KFF Health News colleague Victoria Knight,&nbsp;now at Bloomberg.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Victoria Knight:<\/strong>&nbsp;Hi,&nbsp;everyone.&nbsp;Happy&nbsp;to be back.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Later in this episode,&nbsp;we\u2019ll&nbsp;have the latest installment of our&nbsp;\u201cHow Would You Fix It?\u201d series.&nbsp;This week with David Blumenthal, a&nbsp;physician, health policy expert, author,&nbsp;and former Obama administration official.&nbsp;He&nbsp;literally wrote&nbsp;the book on the history of presidents and health reform through George W.&nbsp;Bush, and he has a&nbsp;brand-new&nbsp;book on the last three presidents and their health care policies. But first, this week\u2019s news.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\">So,&nbsp;Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F Kennedy Jr.&nbsp;on Wednesday completed his tour of Capitol Hill, having appeared before seven separate House and Senate committees in four days of hearings.&nbsp;Ostensibly, Kennedy\u2019s&nbsp;appearances were to answer questions about President&nbsp;[Donald]&nbsp;Trump\u2019s budget proposal for the Department of Health and Human Services. But,&nbsp;as usual, there were lots of other topics as well,&nbsp;as this was the first time the secretary appeared before some of these panels, and the first time some of these members of Congress got to question him in person&nbsp;ever.&nbsp;Victoria, you sat through&nbsp;all of&nbsp;the hearings, right? Or at least all the hearings this week. What was your big takeaway?&nbsp;I guess, not as many fireworks as some of us might have been expecting?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Knight:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah,&nbsp;definitely not&nbsp;as many fireworks. I mean, I think that&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;pretty clear&nbsp;Kennedy has gotten a mandate in some way from the administration to watch his rhetoric, basically, especially&nbsp;his vaccine rhetoric. And we even,&nbsp;at Bloomberg,&nbsp;we\u2019ve&nbsp;had reporting directly saying that&nbsp;he\u2019s&nbsp;\u2026&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;an internal memo that said, you know,&nbsp;he\u2019d&nbsp;keep his messaging on chronic diseases and nutrition and health care affordability, you know,&nbsp;more palatable topics.&nbsp;So&nbsp;I think he&nbsp;definitely tried&nbsp;to stick to that&nbsp;messaging. But there were points where&nbsp;the&nbsp;Kennedy that has for years been anti-vaccine came back through.&nbsp;And&nbsp;so&nbsp;we saw that in certain lines of questioning.&nbsp;And&nbsp;also&nbsp;he really&nbsp;wasn\u2019t&nbsp;able to&nbsp;justify the cuts. He was there on the Hill to testify about the HHS budget, which President Trump proposed putting in still significant cuts to HHS. It&nbsp;wasn\u2019t&nbsp;as deep as&nbsp;proposed&nbsp;last year.&nbsp;But there&nbsp;wasn\u2019t&nbsp;really any good justification that Kennedy provided, except that the U.S.&nbsp;is in a lot of debt, and they need to, we need to reduce it. But he kept being,&nbsp;like,&nbsp;<em>The&nbsp;programs are still good<\/em>.&nbsp;<em>We need to do these programs<\/em>.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;amused, because this, you know, goes back forever of when Cabinet&nbsp;secretaries come up to justify cuts to their departments that they clearly&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;want to make, and&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;not allowed to say,&nbsp;<em>But&nbsp;it&nbsp;wasn\u2019t&nbsp;my idea<\/em>.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Knight:<\/strong>&nbsp;Well,&nbsp;and also&nbsp;that they know&nbsp;Congress will reject it. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;it\u2019s,&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;kind of all&nbsp;fake&nbsp;anyways.&nbsp;All these congressional appropriators are like,&nbsp;<em>Yeah, this is not happening<\/em>.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah. Hence the&nbsp;reason why&nbsp;they get to talk about other things. I will say one thing that I noticed&nbsp;is&nbsp;that he was less rude to these committees than he had been in&nbsp;previous&nbsp;appearances on Capitol Hill.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Stolberg:<\/strong>&nbsp;Really?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Stolberg:&nbsp;<\/strong>I sat through&nbsp;all seven of them.&nbsp;Julie.&nbsp;I thought he was&nbsp;pretty rude.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;I guess&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;all in how you look at it. I thought he&nbsp;wasn\u2019t. Yes, he was definitely still rude, but I really thought there were times when he had now sort of taken the briefing that you get, which is to try and agree with something that a member of Congress says, and says,&nbsp;<em>I will work with you<\/em>, which he hasn\u2019t done before.&nbsp;He\u2019d&nbsp;just been combative before.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Stolberg:&nbsp;<\/strong>That&nbsp;maybe is&nbsp;true, but he has a habit of addressing members of Congress by their first name, which is a serious violation of protocol. And he was rebuked in the House last week for doing that with Frank Pallone, the Democrat of New Jersey.&nbsp;He did apologize&nbsp;for that, which I thought was interesting.&nbsp;But that did not stop him from also accusing senators of,&nbsp;Democrats,&nbsp;of making stuff up, grandstanding,&nbsp;and, you know, fake indignation.&nbsp;And,&nbsp;you know, he yells at them. And then at one point, Diana&nbsp;Harshbarger, the Republican in the House that was chairing&nbsp;the&nbsp;committee, said to him, she just said,&nbsp;<em>I think&nbsp;it\u2019d&nbsp;be best if everybody would just simmer down<\/em>.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:&nbsp;<\/strong>Yeah, there were definitely moments.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Stolberg:<\/strong>&nbsp;And I would add to what Alice&nbsp;[Victoria]&nbsp;said, I do think that the big takeaway was that vaccines&nbsp;really still&nbsp;dominate his tenure. That is the defining issue of his tenure.&nbsp;[Sen.&nbsp;Bill]&nbsp;Cassidy yesterday was very pointed in correcting Kennedy when Kennedy cited a study that he said showed that advances in or reductions in deaths from&nbsp;an&nbsp;infectious&nbsp;disease were largely due to hygiene and sanitation, which is actually true in the first half of the 20th century, before vaccines were introduced. And the second line in that study, which&nbsp;Kennedy&nbsp;did not cite, was that, you know, vaccines had made an incredible difference and were extremely important. And&nbsp;Cassidy had somebody look up that study in the middle of the hearing and came back to Kennedy and said,&nbsp;<em>This&nbsp;is what you&nbsp;didn\u2019t&nbsp;say.&nbsp;You took it out of context<\/em>.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah, I was actually&nbsp;very impressed, because first Cassidy&nbsp;couldn\u2019t&nbsp;find the study, and then&nbsp;\u2026&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Stolberg:&nbsp;<\/strong>I knew the study because I had&nbsp;cited&nbsp;it before.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;I had a feeling you&nbsp;probably knew&nbsp;it. I was trying to find it, and I&nbsp;couldn\u2019t&nbsp;find it.&nbsp;So&nbsp;I was glad that they&nbsp;did.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Stolberg:&nbsp;<\/strong>It\u2019s&nbsp;in the&nbsp;Journal&nbsp;of&nbsp;Pediatrics in 2000&nbsp;by an author named Guyer, not David&nbsp;Geier, but G-U-Y-E-R.&nbsp;You can look it up.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;We could. I will&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/publications.aap.org\/pediatrics\/article-abstract\/106\/6\/1307\/63234\/Annual-Summary-of-Vital-Statistics-Trends-in-the?redirectedFrom=fulltext?autologincheck=redirected\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">put a link to it<\/a>&nbsp;in the show notes.&nbsp;OK.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Knight:<\/strong>&nbsp;I did want to mention also, I do think Cassidy did press Kennedy on vaccines. Certainly, everyone was watching that very closely because of his hesitation last year to vote for Kennedy, and really talking about struggling with the vote,&nbsp;and extracting all these commitments from Kennedy,&nbsp;ostensibly to&nbsp;vote for him, for HHS&nbsp;secretary.&nbsp;Cassidy did not mention any of those,&nbsp;like Kennedy violating any of those commitments, which he clearly has. He was supposed to be in frequent contact with the&nbsp;HELP&nbsp;[Health, Education, Labor &amp; Pensions Committee]&nbsp;chair,&nbsp;go&nbsp;up to the Hill quarterly. He&nbsp;hadn\u2019t&nbsp;been to the&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;Kennedy had not been to the Hill since September. In some of the committees, he&nbsp;hadn\u2019t&nbsp;been there since last year, the last budget proposal.&nbsp;So&nbsp;Cassidy also did not mention these childhood vaccine recommendation overhaul that Kennedy did, which is a huge deal. And he did not mention the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices being completely overhauled as well, and all those members being fired, which are two things Cassidy said he extracted commitments from Kennedy on.&nbsp;So&nbsp;I just want to make that point.&nbsp;Yes.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Stolberg:<\/strong>&nbsp;One quick on that. After the hearing, I asked Cassidy,&nbsp;\u201cDo you think Kennedy has lived up to his promises to you?\u201d&nbsp;And he looked at me and he said,&nbsp;\u201cWe\u2019ll talk later.\u201d&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;I would say, Alice, you&nbsp;wrote&nbsp;a separate story about the fix in which&nbsp;Chairman&nbsp;Cassidy finds himself.&nbsp;He\u2019s&nbsp;being challenged in a primary by&nbsp;a&nbsp;Republican&nbsp;congresswoman&nbsp;endorsed by the Make America&nbsp;Healthy&nbsp;Again&nbsp;PAC. I thought Cassidy&nbsp;was&nbsp;actually more&nbsp;restrained than I expected him to be in yesterday\u2019s hearings.&nbsp;Although&nbsp;I think I&nbsp;guess it was our colleagues at&nbsp;The&nbsp;[Washington]&nbsp;Post who thought he was&nbsp;pretty combative. I mean, what did you take away from the Cassidy-Kennedy relationship?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Ollstein:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah, definitely. I mean, one thing I noticed with both Cassidy and a few other Republicans is one of the few topics where they feel comfortable really going after Kennedy and the Trump administration more broadly is abortion. They think that the administration has not done enough to restrict access to abortion pills, and so they felt more comfortable hammering Kennedy on that issue. You saw Cassidy do that. You saw&nbsp;[Sen. Steve]&nbsp;Daines&nbsp;and a couple of other very anti-abortion senators raise that. And I think&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;an area where they feel like&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;more aligned with the sort of activist GOP base&nbsp;than&nbsp;the administration is.&nbsp;And so whatever blowback they would get for questioning the administration is outweighed by their anti-abortion bona fides. So&nbsp;\u2026&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Although I would say, I will interrupt before you finish and say&nbsp;I thought it was interesting that the members kept doing that because I thought most of it was for show, because we knew early on, because he\u2019s been to all of these committees, that Kennedy was not going to talk about the FDA study on the abortion pill because there\u2019s pending litigation,&nbsp;which is an easy out.&nbsp;But they&nbsp;made,&nbsp;they all made their little speeches, and they knew exactly what he was going to say.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Ollstein:<\/strong>&nbsp;Oh, absolutely, absolutely. I mean, they want to be seen fighting on the issue, for sure.&nbsp;I\u2019ve&nbsp;talked to a lot of anti-abortion activists who say, you know,&nbsp;<em>Look,<\/em>&nbsp;<em>the Trump administration keeps saying we got to go through the process with the study<\/em>.&nbsp;<em>We got to go through the process with the courts. We got to check all the boxes.<\/em>&nbsp;And the anti-abortion activists point out, you know&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;correctly, I think&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;that the administration has been very willing to break with protocol, and even, you know, legal procedure on a bunch of other issues, and&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;saying&nbsp;\u2026&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Which&nbsp;we\u2019ll&nbsp;get to&nbsp;in a moment.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Ollstein:&nbsp;<\/strong>\u2026&nbsp;<em>Why not us? Why are they so careful when it comes to our issue when,&nbsp;clearly, they do whatever they want on other issues?<\/em>&nbsp;And so, I mean, that is a fair point, and I think&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;going to be a continuing frustration. The&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.politico.com\/news\/2026\/04\/20\/cassidy-senate-midterms-maha-louisiana-00879476\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">dynamic we wrote about<\/a>&nbsp;is the influence of the Make America&nbsp;Healthy&nbsp;Again,&nbsp;MAHA,&nbsp;as a political force.&nbsp;We\u2019re&nbsp;going to really get a key test of that in Cassidy\u2019s primary&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;coming up in just a few weeks. MAHA has put a big target on him and wants to knock him out. And&nbsp;my colleague and I took a&nbsp;really&nbsp;critical&nbsp;look at their influence in the race, and&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;sort of not&nbsp;living up to the hype,&nbsp;I would say.&nbsp;MAHA&nbsp;is not making&nbsp;a big impact&nbsp;financially in the race, and they are not making&nbsp;a big impact,&nbsp;really, in messaging. They&nbsp;haven\u2019t&nbsp;succeeded in putting&nbsp;MAHA&nbsp;issues&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;like vaccines, like healthy food, chemicals in the environment&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;they&nbsp;haven\u2019t&nbsp;made those the top issues in this race.&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;sort of the&nbsp;same bread-and-butter,&nbsp;cost-of-living&nbsp;Republican red meat stuff that&nbsp;you\u2019re&nbsp;seeing in other states.&nbsp;And so,&nbsp;I think, you know, we talked to a lot of people, you know, close to the situation, who said, even if Cassidy loses, it\u2019s not going to be because of&nbsp;MAHA.&nbsp;And&nbsp;so&nbsp;I&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;know if that makes him more willing to tangle with RFK in these hearings or not.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:&nbsp;<\/strong>I did think, I thought that it was politics that made him lead with abortion, though, because he&nbsp;\u2026&nbsp;I mean, Louisiana, as we know, is one of the most anti-abortion&nbsp;of all the anti-abortion states.&nbsp;He\u2019s&nbsp;been a longtime anti-abortion&nbsp;crusader. This is not a new position for him, and&nbsp;he\u2019s&nbsp;got this primary,&nbsp;so he would like to bring out his supporters. I mean&nbsp;\u2026&nbsp;I saw that.&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;like, oh, aha, politically, that makes sense, even though he knew that Kennedy&nbsp;wasn\u2019t&nbsp;going to respond to the question.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\">Aside from the&nbsp;secretary\u2019s continuing denial of the accusation that he is anti-vax, there was, in fact, considerable anti-vaccine-related news this week.&nbsp;First,&nbsp;over&nbsp;at&nbsp;the Defense&nbsp;Department, where&nbsp;Secretary Pete&nbsp;Hegseth has decreed that annual flu shots will no longer be&nbsp;required&nbsp;for active-duty and reserve military members. This is, according to&nbsp;Hegseth,&nbsp;\u201cbecause your body, your faith,&nbsp;and your convictions are not negotiable.\u201d&nbsp;Now, flu vaccines have routinely been given to members of the military since just after World War&nbsp;II&nbsp;for the&nbsp;fairly obvious&nbsp;reason that viral infections pass easily among people who are living together in close quarters, like,&nbsp;you know, members of the military. And vaccine requirements in the military,&nbsp;in general,&nbsp;date back to the Revolutionary War,&nbsp;when George Washington ordered troops to&nbsp;submit&nbsp;to the then&nbsp;fairly new&nbsp;smallpox vaccine.&nbsp;Sheryl,&nbsp;you\u2019re&nbsp;our public health historian at the table. Has there ever been a time when the balance between personal liberty and public health has been tilted so heavily towards personal liberty as it is right now?&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Stolberg:<\/strong>&nbsp;I&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;think so.&nbsp;We\u2019ve&nbsp;had anti-vaccine activism in the United States for as long as&nbsp;we\u2019ve&nbsp;had vaccines.&nbsp;And especially at the turn of the 20th century, around the time when smallpox was&nbsp;kind of racing&nbsp;through Boston and other cities, there was a big anti-vaccine push. You might remember, in 1905,&nbsp;the Supreme Court ruled that states could mandate vaccination to protect the public health, and that was in a case brought by a pastor in Cambridge, Massachusetts,&nbsp;who&nbsp;didn\u2019t&nbsp;want to get vaccinated for smallpox. And then we had the&nbsp;\u201960s, when, you know, vaccines were new, and public health people were touting them, and there was a big embrace of vaccination.&nbsp;So&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;very interesting&nbsp;to see what&nbsp;Hegseth has done.&nbsp;And what came up yesterday in the HELP&nbsp;Committee hearing,&nbsp;where&nbsp;[Sen.]&nbsp;Patty Murray reminded Kennedy that during the Great&nbsp;Influenza&nbsp;of 1918,&nbsp;the flu was very indiscriminate, and a lot of soldiers were killed. It did not strike only young people and old people. It struck down people in the prime of their life, many, many in the military. And she said that, you know, this was an issue for readiness.&nbsp;And Kennedy was like,&nbsp;<em>You&nbsp;think the flu is going to kill people?&nbsp;Like,&nbsp;the flu is not going to kill people<\/em>. And it seemed obvious to me that he did not really understand that influenza is not the same all the time, that the virus mutates, and it very well could mutate into a pandemic strain. And he himself is pushing for a universal influenza vaccine, which has been&nbsp;kind of like&nbsp;the dream of public health people, so we could guard against, you know, all types of flu strains.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;And not have to redo the vaccine&nbsp;every year.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Stolberg:&nbsp;<\/strong>Right. So,&nbsp;in&nbsp;short answer to your question, I think certainly not in the last 50 or even 100 years have we seen the ascendancy of the medical&nbsp;freedom&nbsp;movement and the argument that individual liberty takes precedence over the health of the community.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah. Alice,&nbsp;you&nbsp;wanted&nbsp;to add something.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Ollstein:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah.&nbsp;I\u2019ve&nbsp;also seen a lot of people pointing out that&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;not like this is an&nbsp;across-the-board&nbsp;embrace of individual liberty. I mean, if&nbsp;you\u2019re&nbsp;in the military, you still&nbsp;can\u2019t&nbsp;grow a beard&nbsp;if&nbsp;you\u2019re&nbsp;a man, even if you have a skin condition where shaving really hurts and is bad for your skin.&nbsp;You&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;have the personal medical freedom to transition from male to female, or female to male.&nbsp;You&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;even have the personal freedom to wear what you want, to have the hairstyle you want, and so this is&nbsp;really&nbsp;just&nbsp;about vaccines. And,&nbsp;like&nbsp;Sheryl said, you know, really could threaten military readiness. There have been several wars in the past where more soldiers&nbsp;died of disease than died of violent combat impacts.&nbsp;So&nbsp;this is&nbsp;a very interesting&nbsp;carve-out&nbsp;that has a lot of people&nbsp;worried.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Also on the vaccine front at HHS, NIH&nbsp;[National Institutes of Health]&nbsp;Director Jay Bhattacharya, who was actually acting in his role as acting director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, has reportedly canceled publication of a study that found the covid vaccine dramatically reduced hospitalizations and emergency department visits.&nbsp;Bhattacharya,&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.washingtonpost.com\/health\/2026\/04\/22\/covid-vaccine-report-blocked-cdc-mmwr\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">reported&nbsp;both&nbsp;The Washington Post<\/a>&nbsp;and The New York Times,&nbsp;complained that the study\u2019s&nbsp;methodology&nbsp;was flawed. But CDC officials say not only is it the same methodology used in the past, but it\u2019s also basically unheard of for a study approved by CDC\u2019s&nbsp;own&nbsp;scientists not to be published in the agency\u2019s&nbsp;\u201cMorbidity and Mortality Weekly Report\u201d&nbsp;once it reached the stage that this study had&nbsp;reached. Is there any conclusion to be drawn here? Other than&nbsp;that&nbsp;the study\u2019s results contradict the&nbsp;administration\u2019s position that the covid vaccine is not helpful.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Stolberg:<\/strong>&nbsp;Raises&nbsp;a&nbsp;question about radical transparency,&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;for sure. Secretary Kennedy came into office promising radical transparency. This&nbsp;doesn\u2019t&nbsp;seem radically transparent.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:&nbsp;<\/strong>No. Kennedy keeps saying&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;and he said&nbsp;how many times during these hearings?&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;that&nbsp;he\u2019s&nbsp;trying to restore trust in the science agencies. And this does not strike a lot of people&nbsp;as a way to&nbsp;restore trust when something is canceled because you&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;like the results. Victoria, did you want to add something?&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Knight:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah,&nbsp;I mean, I think&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;a great point. He just said multiple times throughout all these hearings, especially when Democrats were questioning him on vaccines, that&nbsp;<em>I\u2019m willing to look at studies, I\u2019m willing to look at data, I\u2019m willing to review everything<\/em>, if you\u2019re bringing up maybe things he allegedly said he had not seen before,&nbsp;data or whatever. So&nbsp;yeah, exactly this&nbsp;goes exactly&nbsp;against that.&nbsp;You would think if&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;a study showing something,&nbsp;he\u2019d&nbsp;be willing to view it. If that was his philosophy.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;We would&nbsp;see. All right. Well, meanwhile, President Trump continues to make his health policy out of the White House. Last Saturday, he summoned his top health officials, plus popular podcaster Joe Rogan, to the Oval Office to sign an executive order to facilitate research into and to fast-track&nbsp;FDA review of some previously banned psychedelic substances, including&nbsp;ibogaine and LSD, which are legally considered to have no medicinal uses. This is&nbsp;actually not&nbsp;all that controversial.&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;part of an ongoing push from researchers who say that some of these substances might well be useful for treating things like severe depression, PTSD,&nbsp;and even opioid dependence. But what made this so unusual is that it was&nbsp;apparently pushed&nbsp;to fruition in just a matter of days by a text from Joe Rogan to President Trump.&nbsp;So&nbsp;what message does this send about the so-called&nbsp;gold-standard science being the only thing that counts in this administration, when a podcaster with a big following that the&nbsp;president wants can spring loose a major policy shift in less than a week?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Stolberg:<\/strong>&nbsp;So&nbsp;I have a theory about&nbsp;this, actually. Well, first, it is highly unusual that Trump would step in on this,&nbsp;right? Like&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;not the ordinary course of science that the&nbsp;president issues these executive orders.&nbsp;But Casey&nbsp;Means,&nbsp;who is President Trump\u2019s nominee for&nbsp;surgeon&nbsp;general,&nbsp;has advocated the use of psilocybin, and so&nbsp;has&nbsp;Secretary Kennedy, for that matter.&nbsp;But this is one of the things that is&nbsp;kind of stalling&nbsp;her nomination.&nbsp;[Sen.]&nbsp;Susan Collins has raised concerns about this.&nbsp;I guess I just kind of wonder if Trump is trying to put his imprimatur on this research,&nbsp;maybe as&nbsp;a backhanded way to give her a boost? Or&nbsp;maybe I\u2019m&nbsp;just too Machiavellian, and&nbsp;maybe&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;just that Joe Rogan texted him, and he was like,&nbsp;<em>Yeah,&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;a good idea<\/em>.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;And it was, in&nbsp;fairness,&nbsp;it was already in the works.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Stolberg:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah. And, I mean, there&nbsp;is&nbsp;a lot of legitimate scientific reasons to do this kind of research.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;And, I will say, I mean,&nbsp;I\u2019ve&nbsp;studied this, and I believe breaking just&nbsp;today,&nbsp;they\u2019re, you know, rescheduling marijuana.&nbsp;Again,&nbsp;all of&nbsp;these technical changes are to make it easier to do the research. Part of the problem has been that because these substances were scheduled as having no medicinal uses, you&nbsp;couldn\u2019t&nbsp;get them to do the research.&nbsp;So&nbsp;one of the things that this does is make it easier.&nbsp;To have Joe Rogan in the Oval Office on a Saturday morning&nbsp;struck me as,&nbsp;like,&nbsp;OK, this is a little strange.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Knight:<\/strong>&nbsp;But isn\u2019t that how this administration works?&nbsp;Right? I mean, I think that,&nbsp;just in general,&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;a lot of influencer types that&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;I would say, Joe Rogan, podcaster, influencer type&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;that just have influence in this White House because they have forged a connection with Trump.&nbsp;And so,&nbsp;if they say something to him, he will take that into account and change policy sometimes.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;And he wants the young male demographic, which Joe Rogan very much&nbsp;represents. All&nbsp;right,&nbsp;we\u2019re&nbsp;going to take a quick break. We will be right back.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\">OK, we are back.&nbsp;And turning to the Affordable Care Act,&nbsp;despite reassurances from Trump administration officials that the lapse of the Biden-era&nbsp;additional&nbsp;premium tax credits&nbsp;didn\u2019t&nbsp;result in a big drop in coverage,&nbsp;we\u2019re&nbsp;getting&nbsp;more data suggesting that is not the case. A new report this week from the group&nbsp;representing&nbsp;the 21 states that run their own marketplaces show[s]&nbsp;about 900,000 enrollees dropped coverage in the first three months of this year.&nbsp;Compared to last year, disenrollments are&nbsp;up&nbsp;24%. Hardest&nbsp;hit, not surprisingly, are older enrollees between&nbsp;the&nbsp;age&nbsp;55 and 64.&nbsp;Their premiums are higher to begin with, so the loss of&nbsp;additional&nbsp;subsidies hits them harder. Meanwhile, even people who have managed to keep coverage are paying more,&nbsp;as many dropped the more generous&nbsp;\u201cgold\u201d&nbsp;and&nbsp;\u201csilver\u201d&nbsp;plans,&nbsp;for those with higher deductibles but lower premiums.&nbsp;And those deductibles are often&nbsp;eye-popping&nbsp;indeed&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;not just&nbsp;$1,000 or $1,500 a year, but often more than five figures. I know I say this&nbsp;roughly every&nbsp;other week, but&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;surprised this&nbsp;isn\u2019t&nbsp;making more of an impact in the national conversation. I mean, you know, I keep seeing people who say&nbsp;<em>I\u2019m&nbsp;having to drop my insurance<\/em>&nbsp;or, you know,&nbsp;<em>I have insurance and I&nbsp;can\u2019t&nbsp;afford to use it because my deductible is $10,000<\/em>.&nbsp;I know it&nbsp;sort of swept&nbsp;into this whole&nbsp;\u201caffordability\u201d&nbsp;thing, but I thought this might have come up more during seven hearings with the&nbsp;secretary of HHS.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Knight:<\/strong>&nbsp;I mean, I think&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;partly because there is just so much happening in the world right now that everything else is getting pushed aside in a&nbsp;way,&nbsp;if&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;not related to the Iran war or gas prices or things like that. But I do think, I mean, we\u2019ll see, but Democrats, once we were starting to get&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;you know, we just started to get some of this data about ACA enrollment and how it\u2019s changing now that the premium tax credit, enhanced premium tax credits, were not extended by Congress, we\u2019re just now starting to get some of the data. So I think as we see more data,&nbsp;and then&nbsp;we\u2019ll see even more of that going into the summer,&nbsp;I think Democrats, at least, will be hitting this really hard on the campaign trail, and maybe that will permeate and become part of more of the national conversation.&nbsp;We\u2019ll&nbsp;see, but&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;at least&nbsp;gonna&nbsp;message on it,&nbsp;certainly.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah, I think, you know, one of the things that\u2019s important to remember is that the administration, it\u2019s telling the truth when it says, you know, most people were still enrolled in January, because a lot of those people got auto-enrolled.&nbsp;And&nbsp;it takes several&nbsp;months of&nbsp;not paying your premiums before you can actually get kicked off your insurance.&nbsp;So&nbsp;in fact,&nbsp;we\u2019re&nbsp;only just starting to see how many people.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Ollstein:<\/strong>&nbsp;This is just the beginning. And the fact that&nbsp;we\u2019re&nbsp;already seeing such coverage losses means that&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;going to be more.&nbsp;And I think&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;going to have a political impact in certain contexts. I mean, there was a report&nbsp;<em>just<\/em>&nbsp;about the&nbsp;big drop in enrollment in Georgia, and Georgia is a major swing state with some major races coming up, and so I expect it to have&nbsp;a big impact&nbsp;there. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;I think, rather than being like a dominant national message, I think in certain places where&nbsp;you\u2019re&nbsp;really seeing the strain.&nbsp;I\u2019ll&nbsp;also point out that&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;not just about people becoming completely uninsured.&nbsp;There\u2019s&nbsp;also a big shift from people being in more&nbsp;comprehensive health care plans to people moving into skimpy, high-deductible health care plans.&nbsp;And&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;going to have a lot of ripple effects going forward as&nbsp;well, and&nbsp;going to lead to a lot of&nbsp;struggle. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;I think it&nbsp;contributes to the overall sense that people are really in financial&nbsp;dire straits&nbsp;and&nbsp;can\u2019t&nbsp;afford&nbsp;basic daily life.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Stolberg:<\/strong>&nbsp;We\u2019re&nbsp;going to see that, coupled with a lot of Democrats talking, as they did during the hearings, about cuts to Medicaid. Kennedy insists that&nbsp;we\u2019re&nbsp;not cutting Medicaid, but if you talk to any rural hospital executive around the country, they will tell you that they are crumbling under the loss of Medicaid reimbursements.&nbsp;And I think that those,&nbsp;the Medicaid&nbsp;and also&nbsp;the ACA enrollments,&nbsp;will&nbsp;emerge&nbsp;as powerful issues for Democrats.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Kennedy was repeating the age-old argument&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;always made that if the amount of money to Medicaid goes up, it&nbsp;can\u2019t&nbsp;be a cut, even though that&nbsp;doesn\u2019t&nbsp;keep up with inflation or enrollment or the number of people. Yeah, so, I mean, it\u2019s like&nbsp;\u2026&nbsp;if you\u2019re paying more, if your mortgage goes up and you\u2019re paying more for it and it goes up more than you\u2019re paying,&nbsp;than you\u2019re able to pay, then that\u2019s really a cut in your income.&nbsp;So&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;a perennial argument that we do see.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Stolberg:&nbsp;<\/strong>It\u2019s&nbsp;Washington accounting.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:&nbsp;<\/strong>Yeah. Finally, this week, there is news on the reproductive health front. In Pennsylvania, a state appellate court ruled that a 1982 ban on the use of public funds to pay for abortion violates that state\u2019s Equal Rights Amendment. Now this case could still be appealed to the state Supreme Court, but this is a&nbsp;pretty significant&nbsp;ruling for a very purple swing&nbsp;state,&nbsp;right,&nbsp;Alice?&nbsp;And it could lead to state-funded Medicaid coverage for&nbsp;abortion,&nbsp;if&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;upheld.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Ollstein:<\/strong>&nbsp;That\u2019s&nbsp;right. And I will say there was a major state Supreme Court race last year, and it was all about abortion rights&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;that was, like,&nbsp;the dominating issue in it.&nbsp;And the progressives prevailed on that message. I think&nbsp;you\u2019re&nbsp;really seeing, like you said, a very mixed state, a very purple state,&nbsp;really being swayed in the direction of supporting abortion rights. And&nbsp;we\u2019ve&nbsp;seen that in a lot of states, you know, since&nbsp;<em>Dobbs<\/em>&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;states&nbsp;you might not expect to go in that direction.&nbsp;And I think&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;going to continue to dominate&nbsp;state Supreme Court races as an issue.&nbsp;You\u2019re&nbsp;seeing that right now with Georgia.&nbsp;I would&nbsp;advise folks to&nbsp;keep an eye on that.&nbsp;There\u2019s&nbsp;a very pro-abortion rights message for those candidates in that&nbsp;race.&nbsp;\u2026&nbsp;But this is specifically the issue of Medicaid coverage of abortion, I think,&nbsp;is going to keep coming up over and over as well, because&nbsp;it\u2019s really getting at the question of, yes, you can have legal access to abortion on paper, but if you can\u2019t afford it, is it really accessible?&nbsp;So&nbsp;this could open up access to a lot of low-income people that would not maybe be able to afford it otherwise.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;And for the people who are wondering,&nbsp;<em>Wait&nbsp;a minute, I thought Medicaid coverage of abortion is banned<\/em>&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;federal Medicaid coverage of abortion is banned. States may use their own money if they wish to pay for abortion, and many bluer states do.&nbsp;That\u2019s&nbsp;the question at hand here.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\">Meanwhile, in South Carolina, lawmakers are advancing a ban on abortion&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;so strict it would subject women who have abortions to punishment, although not as severe as the punishment for those who perform abortions. I thought this was a basic tenet of the anti-abortion movement, that the women who have abortions are also victims and&nbsp;shouldn\u2019t&nbsp;be punished.&nbsp;Is that changing?&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Ollstein:<\/strong>&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;been a very loud debate&nbsp;recently. You have different wings of the anti-abortion movement who are clashing on this, and many are watching the total number of abortions in the U.S.&nbsp;go up since&nbsp;<em>Dobbs,<\/em>&nbsp;and say this incremental strategy where we shield&nbsp;women who have abortions from prosecution and only go after the doctors. Some of the hard-liners&nbsp;feel&nbsp;that&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;not working, and so they&nbsp;have to&nbsp;try something else&nbsp;in order to&nbsp;actually have&nbsp;the chilling effect that they want to have and deter people from even&nbsp;attempting&nbsp;to get abortions. And then you have a lot of the more mainstream groups who really are against that strategy, and say that, you know,&nbsp;<em>this will just drive voters into the arms of Democrats if we look like we\u2019re the&nbsp;<\/em>quote-unquote<em>&nbsp;\u201cwar on women\u201d&nbsp;that we\u2019ve been accused of waging all these years<\/em>. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;a very active&nbsp;debate right now.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Stolberg:<\/strong>&nbsp;I was going to say,&nbsp;do you remember when Trump was running in 2015 and he said that he thought women should be punished for having abortions?&nbsp;And there was a big&nbsp;firestorm over it from the anti-abortion movement. And he basically&nbsp;shut&nbsp;up on that.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yes, I do remember that.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Stolberg:<\/strong>&nbsp;So&nbsp;\u2026&nbsp;you can see how things have evolved. Of course, that was, you&nbsp;know, when&nbsp;<em>Roe<\/em>&nbsp;was still&nbsp;into&nbsp;effect. Then we got&nbsp;<em>Dobbs<\/em>, and,&nbsp;as Alice said, things are changing.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:&nbsp;<\/strong>Yes, things are changing. All right. Well, that is this week\u2019s news, or at least as much as we have time for.&nbsp;Now&nbsp;we will play my&nbsp;\u201cHow&nbsp;Would&nbsp;You&nbsp;Fix It?\u201d&nbsp;interview&nbsp;with David Blumenthal, and then&nbsp;we\u2019ll&nbsp;come back and do our extra credits.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\">I am pleased to welcome to&nbsp;\u201cHow Would You Fix It?\u201d&nbsp;David Blumenthal, a true&nbsp;Renaissance man&nbsp;of health policy. When I first met David in the 1980s,&nbsp;he was teaching at Harvard Medical School, doctoring in Boston,&nbsp;and writing about health policy. Since then, he has served as president of the&nbsp;health&nbsp;policy research organization&nbsp;The Commonwealth Fund, and,&nbsp;before that, as&nbsp;national&nbsp;coordinator for&nbsp;health&nbsp;information&nbsp;technology in the Obama administration. In his&nbsp;\u201cspare time,\u201d&nbsp;air quotes, David has written countless journal and&nbsp;other articles and&nbsp;several books, most notably,&nbsp;with political scientist James Morone,&nbsp;<em>The Heart of Power:&nbsp;Health and Politics in the Oval Office<\/em>, which chronicles presidential health policies from Teddy Roosevelt through George W Bush. Now he and&nbsp;Morone&nbsp;are out with a&nbsp;follow-up book called&nbsp;<em>Whiplash: From the Battle for Obamacare to the War on Science<\/em>, which covers the&nbsp;rather eventful&nbsp;last three administrations in health&nbsp;care. David Blumenthal, thank you so much for joining us.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>David Blumenthal:<\/strong>&nbsp;Oh,&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;my pleasure. What a great introduction. Thank you so much for that.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;So,&nbsp;if&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;Congress that makes the laws, why is it that the&nbsp;president is so pivotal when it comes to health policy?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Blumenthal:&nbsp;<\/strong>Well, people forget that there is only one official in the United States who&nbsp;is&nbsp;elected by all the people, and that is the&nbsp;president.&nbsp;That gives him&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;or someday her, we hope&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;a legitimacy, a symbolic authority,&nbsp;and an ability to rise above the din of Washington conversation to reach the American people and to build support or mobilize opposition to whatever an enterprising&nbsp;congressman&nbsp;or senator has in mind. Those same&nbsp;congressmen&nbsp;and senators really crave direction, most of them,&nbsp;from the&nbsp;president to know what that official\u2019s priorities are, so they can line up behind it. They also want to know what the&nbsp;president might veto&nbsp;before they put a lot of effort into things.&nbsp;So&nbsp;all those things are reasons why presidents have a level of authority which is often underappreciated, especially in health care, where the&nbsp;day-to-day&nbsp;conversation often focuses on what a senator or&nbsp;a&nbsp;congressman&nbsp;or&nbsp;a&nbsp;committee&nbsp;chairman&nbsp;is saying. But in the end, unless the&nbsp;president is behind something important,&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;not going to happen in the Congress.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:&nbsp;<\/strong>And&nbsp;pretty much everything&nbsp;major in health care has had a president spearheading it,&nbsp;hasn\u2019t it?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Blumenthal:<\/strong>&nbsp;Exactly.&nbsp;Some that have succeeded, like Medicare and Medicaid, Lyndon Johnson\u2019s proposals, and some that have not,&nbsp;like the Clinton&nbsp;health&nbsp;plan.&nbsp;And then, of course, the Affordable Care Act, which was uniquely the product of President Barack Obama\u2019s sponsorship, passion, enduring commitment, with a lot of&nbsp;help from Nancy Pelosi.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Can you talk a little bit about tinkering versus major reforms, and what&nbsp;you\u2019ve&nbsp;learned from studying the last dozen or so major health reform debates? I know&nbsp;just in the 40 years I\u2019ve been doing this, you know federal government has&nbsp;gone back and forth&nbsp;between&nbsp;<em>We should try to do something<\/em>&nbsp;<em>big;<\/em>&nbsp;<em>no, we can\u2019t do something big, so we should try to do something small; no, it doesn\u2019t work if we do something small, we should try&nbsp;to do something big.&nbsp;<\/em>It\u2019s&nbsp;just been this constant swaying.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Blumenthal:&nbsp;<\/strong>Well, one of the stories that we tell in both of our books is the story of the dance that has gone on over the ages between proponents of major health care reform and opponents.&nbsp;And this has typically been&nbsp;Democratic proponents and Republican opponents. And the story is this:&nbsp;Somebody in the Democratic Party proposes a massive health care reform proposal, and the Republicans scream socialism, government control, death panels, whatever, and propose an alternative that is smaller, more about free markets, more about the private sector, more about competition. The Democratic proposal goes down in flames, and then 20 years later, the Democrats come back and propose what the Republicans proposed the first time. Then the Republicans say socialism, government control,&nbsp;more&nbsp;limited government, more free market, more private sector.&nbsp;Same&nbsp;thing happens. It goes and goes and goes. What we saw with the Affordable Care Act was that the effort to get anything meaningful in the way of coverage,&nbsp;with a less governmentally oriented program,&nbsp;had run out its rope. There was just nowhere else for conservatives to go, which is why we got the Heritage Foundation proposing what Gov.&nbsp;Mitt Romney and Ted Kennedy accepted in Massachusetts as the basis for health care reform. So I think what happened was that&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;and this, I think, you saw mostly in the repeal-and-replace&nbsp;failure&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;the Republicans could not come up with anything that was more incremental, less comprehensive,&nbsp;and still made a difference for people\u2019s insurance, especially on the issue of preexisting conditions.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:&nbsp;<\/strong>They were&nbsp;OK&nbsp;with the repeal, just not with the&nbsp;replace.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Blumenthal:<\/strong>&nbsp;Exactly, which is a story that we tell,&nbsp;in detail, in&nbsp;<em>Whiplash<\/em>. So incremental reform is the way Americans do business.&nbsp;We\u2019ve&nbsp;now incremented our way to a four-legged stool that can achieve universal coverage. We have employer-sponsored insurance, which, of course, is subsidized by the government. We have Medicare, which is the third rail of health&nbsp;care politics. We have&nbsp;Medicaid, which can be expanded if states and the federal government choose, and we have the Affordable Care Act.&nbsp;And together, those got us,&nbsp;during the last years&nbsp;of&nbsp;the Biden administration, to 93% coverage of Americans. We have the tools to increment our way now to universal coverage, and that just seems&nbsp;\u2026 to&nbsp;be the way Americans want to do business, at least in health care.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:&nbsp;<\/strong>How does that politicization of not just health insurance coverage but everything that surrounds health and health care becoming red or blue&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;how\u2019s&nbsp;that going to&nbsp;impact&nbsp;the next big health debate?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Blumenthal:&nbsp;<\/strong>Well,&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;red-blue.&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;also&nbsp;\u2026&nbsp;has racial overtones. It also has xenophobic overtones, with attitudes toward immigration.&nbsp;All these things now run straight through health&nbsp;care. I think&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;a difference between the psychology of opposition to vaccination and suspicion of the NIH and the people who come into play when it comes to the cost-control issue. Cost control is a&nbsp;bread-and-butter&nbsp;issue. Vaccination is about personal freedom, the sanctity of bodies, the freedom to say no.&nbsp;It has a different overtone and undertone to it. I think that the controversy over cost will be viewed much more as a traditional interest-group struggle, rather than as a red-blue struggle. And&nbsp;I think&nbsp;there\u2019ll&nbsp;be some people from the Republican Party who will get to the point where their constituents are saying,&nbsp;<em>We&nbsp;may have health insurance, but&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;not worth a damn because our deductibles are too high and our copayments are too high. We&nbsp;got&nbsp;to do something<\/em>.&nbsp;And I think&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;a chance for a bipartisan solution&nbsp;on&nbsp;that score.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:&nbsp;<\/strong>So&nbsp;we\u2019re&nbsp;calling this series&nbsp;\u201cHow Would You Fix It?\u201d&nbsp;How would&nbsp;<em>you<\/em>&nbsp;fix it if you could wave a wand and put aside&nbsp;all of&nbsp;the politics that I know you now know so well.&nbsp;But if you could do one or two things to make our health system function better, what would it be?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Blumenthal:&nbsp;<\/strong>Well, you know, we, in&nbsp;writing&nbsp;the book, we spent some time with President Obama, who said, you know,&nbsp;<em>I would have loved to have had&nbsp;\u201cMedicare for All,\u201d&nbsp;but I knew that was impossible<\/em>.&nbsp;So&nbsp;we now have this Rube Goldberg apparatus providing us coverage, and I think&nbsp;we\u2019re&nbsp;stuck with that.&nbsp;So&nbsp;what I would do first is make the Affordable Care Act as generous as it should have been and got to be after the&nbsp;Inflation Reduction Act. And I think if we did that and worked our way around the Supreme Court\u2019s prohibition about requiring Medicaid expansion, which we almost did in the IRA&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;it\u2019s little-known, but there was an alternative to expanding Medicaid that would have made it a federal program, added to the state program, and not be&nbsp;\u2026 go&nbsp;crosswise with the Supreme Court.&nbsp;That,&nbsp;plus&nbsp;\u2026&nbsp;so that would be just&nbsp;sort of make do&nbsp;everything we can to make coverage as universal as it could be.&nbsp;And then add to that a set of incremental changes that would reduce the cost of care.&nbsp;That would involve, I think, more regulation of private insurance&nbsp;to reduce the complexity of benefits and the complexity of billing. The Netherlands and Germany run their health systems through private insurance. They just standardize what&nbsp;the private&nbsp;companies offer. We could do that. In fact, the Affordable Care Act&nbsp;begins&nbsp;that process, especially in marketplaces like California, where private insurers are heavily regulated.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\">The second is we need to break up the monopolies that have formed at the local level in the health&nbsp;care provider system, where you have&nbsp;virtually no&nbsp;competition based on price or anything else. We need to change the way we pay for care much more aggressively. Artificial intelligence has enormous potential to reduce administrative costs, but it also has&nbsp;an enormous&nbsp;potential to run them up. If the incentives in the system are not fixed, the incentives in the&nbsp;fee-for-service system will lead to&nbsp;using&nbsp;AI to maximize billing.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Which&nbsp;we\u2019ve&nbsp;already seen.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Blumenthal:<\/strong>&nbsp;Right,&nbsp;and&nbsp;not reduce administrative expenses. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;we need to give providers and other powerful interests an incentive to use AI to make the health&nbsp;care system work better, rather than to make it generate more revenue.&nbsp;So&nbsp;I think those&nbsp;are some of the things that&nbsp;we\u2019ll&nbsp;need to do.&nbsp;So,&nbsp;build on what we have, the four-legged stool, the foundation for universal coverage we already have, and begin to take on the cost of&nbsp;care through changes that are,&nbsp;for which there are precedents elsewhere in the world, but which until now, we\u2019ve been unwilling to take on.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:&nbsp;<\/strong>David Blumenthal,&nbsp;we\u2019ll&nbsp;see how this all plays out.&nbsp;Thank you so much.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Blumenthal:&nbsp;<\/strong>Thank you, Julie.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:&nbsp;<\/strong>OK,&nbsp;we\u2019re&nbsp;back.&nbsp;Now&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;time for our&nbsp;extra-credit&nbsp;segment.&nbsp;That\u2019s&nbsp;where we each recognize a story we read this&nbsp;week&nbsp;we think you should read, too.&nbsp;Don\u2019t&nbsp;worry if you miss it. We&nbsp;will&nbsp;post&nbsp;the links in our show notes on your phone or other mobile device.&nbsp;Victoria, why don\u2019t you start us off this week?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Knight:<\/strong>&nbsp;Sure thing.&nbsp;My story for extra credit is in&nbsp;The New York Times, and the title is&nbsp;\u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.nytimes.com\/2026\/04\/22\/us\/politics\/doctors-insurers-arbitration.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">A $440,000 Breast Reduction: How Doctors Cashed In on a Consumer Protection Law<\/a>,\u201d by Sarah Kliff and Margot Sanger-Katz, Sheryl\u2019s colleagues.&nbsp;So&nbsp;this is a really interesting look at the ramifications of the 2020&nbsp;No&nbsp;Surprises Act that was passed by Congress. And the whole point of this act was to protect patients from surprise medical bills. Because, you know, it still happens nowadays, but this law&nbsp;helps&nbsp;it. Basically, sometimes patients go to an&nbsp;out-of-network&nbsp;doctor,&nbsp;they might&nbsp;get stuck with a really, really high bill, and it\u2019s really difficult for them to pay.&nbsp;So&nbsp;Congress wanted to do something about it. They did, and now, basically, insurers and doctors&nbsp;have to&nbsp;go to an arbitrator if there is a conflict about the price of the bill, if&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;an&nbsp;out-of-network&nbsp;bill.&nbsp;This article really had a lot of great data points on how it seems arbitrators are really favoring doctors in these decision-making and awarding doctors with these really high amounts of money for these medical procedures.&nbsp;So basically, the&nbsp;doctors offer an amount of money that the medical procedure should cost, and the insurers offer one, and the arbitrator just picks one of the two prices. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;doctors are really getting awarded way&nbsp;more.&nbsp;\u2026&nbsp;Some doctors are&nbsp;profiting off of&nbsp;this by certain types of procedures, such as breast reduction that was mentioned in the title. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;it was really fascinating. And a few lawmakers were interviewed, and they were like,&nbsp;<em>Well, we&nbsp;didn\u2019t&nbsp;really think about that happening, but at least patients are protected<\/em>. I&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;know&nbsp;if&nbsp;Congress will do anything about it, but&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;a new twist in our health&nbsp;care system.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah, I love this story because&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;been complaints about the arbitration system&nbsp;pretty much since&nbsp;the law passed. And&nbsp;I think it&nbsp;takes, you know, a story like this for everybody&nbsp;to&nbsp;say,&nbsp;<em>Oh, my goodness, is that&nbsp;what\u2019s&nbsp;happening?&nbsp;<\/em>Alice, why don\u2019t you go next?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Ollstein:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yes, I have&nbsp;a[n]&nbsp;analysis from&nbsp;The Washington Post. It\u2019s called&nbsp;\u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.washingtonpost.com\/science\/2026\/04\/19\/science-research-funding-cuts-trump\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Where U.S. Science Has Been Hit Hardest After Trump\u2019s First Year<\/a>,\u201d&nbsp;and it\u2019s looking at these science and research grants from the National Institutes of Health, and even though Congress has largely protected that funding and approved increases, even where the White House pushed for decreases, that money is not going out, and it\u2019s really not going out to certain researchers researching certain topics, chief among them things that impact women\u2019s health.&nbsp;And this is partially,&nbsp;as the article gets into,&nbsp;a&nbsp;result of this war on&nbsp;what\u2019s&nbsp;viewed as&nbsp;DEI&nbsp;[diversity,&nbsp;equity,&nbsp;and&nbsp;inclusion]. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;research into conditions that primarily or solely&nbsp;impact&nbsp;women, like endometriosis,&nbsp;are seen as&nbsp;DEI&nbsp;and are therefore getting cut. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;it really gets into the toll&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;taking on these labs around the country that are, you know, potentially discovering breakthroughs, but are now in limbo and having to lay people off and has big consequences.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Another&nbsp;story that made me angry.&nbsp;Sheryl, you have one of Alice\u2019s stories as your extra credit.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Stolberg:<\/strong>&nbsp;I do.&nbsp;So&nbsp;this is from Politico&nbsp;by&nbsp;Alice and her colleague, Amanda Friedman:&nbsp;\u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.politico.com\/news\/2026\/04\/21\/trump-surgeon-general-casey-means-abortion-psychedelics-00881954\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Trump\u2019s Surgeon General Pick Faces Mounting GOP Opposition<\/a>.\u201d&nbsp;And the reason I like this story is because it\u2019s about Casey&nbsp;Means, and in how this&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;there\u2019s a wave of attacks coming against her, kind of under the radar from the right, from abortion opponents, including the policy arm of the Southern Baptist Convention, and also people who, as we mentioned before, are perhaps raised questions about her embrace of psychedelics. And&nbsp;I think that what&nbsp;happens with Casey&nbsp;Means is really&nbsp;kind of a&nbsp;symbol, or&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;like a microcosm of what is going to happen with the MAHA&nbsp;movement. And yesterday, after the hearing, I asked Sen.&nbsp;Cassidy,&nbsp;who is&nbsp;kind of sitting&nbsp;on Casey&nbsp;Means\u2019&nbsp;confirmation,&nbsp;\u201cWhen are we going to see a vote on Casey&nbsp;Means?\u201d&nbsp;And he said,&nbsp;\u201cNo comment.\u201d&nbsp;So&nbsp;I just think that this&nbsp;is something to watch, and I&nbsp;applaud&nbsp;Alice and her colleague for pointing out this kind of&nbsp;below-the-radar&nbsp;campaign to hold her up.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah, really, really good story.&nbsp;All right. My extra credit,&nbsp;also from one of our podcast panelists, Rachel&nbsp;Roubein&nbsp;at&nbsp;The Washington Post.&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;called&nbsp;\u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.washingtonpost.com\/health\/2026\/04\/20\/candy-soda-ban-food-stamps-snap-maha\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">KitKat, Gatorade or Granola Bars? What\u2019s Banned Under New SNAP Rules Is Mixed<\/a>.\u201d&nbsp;And I love this story because&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;one of those&nbsp;\u201cwhat seems simple is anything but\u201d&nbsp;policy stories. What seems simple here is the idea that food stamps&nbsp;shouldn\u2019t&nbsp;be used to pay for unhealthy food like candy and soda. But who&nbsp;determines&nbsp;what\u2019s&nbsp;healthy and how is that decided? Thanks to a big pilot program from the Trump administration, two dozen states have received permission to make changes to the food and drink&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;eligible to be paid for using SNAP&nbsp;[Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program]&nbsp;benefits, and 10 states have now implemented restrictions.&nbsp;But&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;a lot harder than just saying you&nbsp;can\u2019t&nbsp;buy soda and candy. In some states, Gatorade and even Pedialyte are ineligible, even though those are often given to nurse&nbsp;sick&nbsp;kids. In Iowa, KitKat and Twix bars are eligible because&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;made with flour and so&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;not technically candy. Some&nbsp;SNAP&nbsp;rules are so arbitrary that&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;and this is not part of Rachel\u2019s story because it just happened&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;a bipartisan group of U.S.&nbsp;senators on Wednesday introduced the&nbsp;\u201cHot&nbsp;Rotisserie&nbsp;Chicken&nbsp;Act\u201d&nbsp;to make sure that&nbsp;Costco\u2019s famous $4.99 roasted bird remains available to those getting federal food assistance. We will watch to see if&nbsp;that flies.&nbsp;Sorry.&nbsp;Not&nbsp;really sorry.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;OK, that is this week\u2019s show.&nbsp;Thanks to our editor&nbsp;this week,&nbsp;Stephanie Stapleton, and our producer-engineer, Francis Ying.&nbsp;We also had production help this week from Taylor Cook.&nbsp;A reminder:&nbsp;<em>What the Health?<\/em>&nbsp;is now available on WAMU platforms, the NPR app, and wherever you get your podcasts \u2014 as well as, of course,&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">kffhealthnews.org<\/a>. Also,&nbsp;as always, you can email&nbsp;us&nbsp;your comments or questions.&nbsp;We\u2019re&nbsp;at whatthehealth@kff.org.&nbsp;Or you can&nbsp;still&nbsp;find me on&nbsp;Twitter&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/jrovner\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@jrovner<\/a>, or on&nbsp;Bluesky&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/bsky.app\/profile\/julierovner.bsky.social\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@julierovner<\/a>.&nbsp;Where are you folks these days?&nbsp;Sheryl?&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Stolberg:<\/strong>&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;at&nbsp;@SherylNYTon&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/x.com\/SherylNYT\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">X<\/a>, formerly Twitter, and&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/bsky.app\/profile\/sherylnyt.bsky.social\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Bluesky<\/a>.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Victoria.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Knight:<\/strong>&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/x.com\/victoriaregisk\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@victoriaregisk<\/a>&nbsp;on X.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Alice.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Ollstein:<\/strong>&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/bsky.app\/profile\/alicemiranda.bsky.social\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@alicemiranda<\/a>&nbsp;on Bluesky&nbsp;and&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/x.com\/aliceollstein?lang=en\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@AliceOllstein<\/a>&nbsp;on Twitter&nbsp;[X].&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;We\u2019ll&nbsp;be back in your feed next week. Until then, be healthy.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n<\/details>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-people-container--light-blue wp-block-kff-shared-people-container--threerow wp-block-kff-shared-people-container--credits wp-block-kff-shared-people-container\">\n\t\t<h3 class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-people-container__title\">\n\t\tCredits\t<\/h3>\n\t\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-people-container__cards\">\n\t\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card\">\n\t\n\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__meta-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__name\">Francis Ying<\/div>\n\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__affiliation\">Audio producer<\/div>\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card\">\n\t\n\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__meta-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__name\">Taylor Cook<\/div>\n\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__affiliation\">Audio producer<\/div>\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card\">\n\t\n\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__meta-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__name\">Stephanie Stapleton<\/div>\n\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"wp-block-kff-shared-person-card__affiliation\">Editor<\/div>\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\"\/>\n\n\n\n<p><em><a href=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/our-podcasts\/\"><u>Click here to find all our podcasts.<\/u><\/a><\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>And subscribe to &#8220;What the Health? From KFF Health News&#8221; on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/what-the-health\/id1253607372?mt=2\"><u>Apple Podcasts<\/u><\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/32EdsB662C3oyIrqLMmBXI?si=TQhRjzzLTgWtK3crfbOFtA\"><u>Spotify<\/u><\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/app.npr.org\/aggregation\/fis-1269164038\"><u>the NPR app<\/u><\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/playlist?list=PL5Qew-7pSXbAucCUQnyRx6qpLglzrxzFb\">YouTube<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/play.pocketcasts.com\/web\/podcasts\/a379e280-3f57-0135-9028-63f4b61a9224\"><u>Pocket Casts<\/u><\/a>, or wherever you listen to podcasts.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. completed his tour of House and Senate committees this week, ostensibly to promote President Donald Trump\u2019s budget proposal for his department but also to answer for some of his more controversial positions, particularly on vaccines. Meanwhile, Trump signed an order to facilitate the use of hallucinogens to treat mental health conditions. Victoria Knight of Bloomberg Government, Alice Miranda Ollstein of Politico, and Sheryl Gay Stolberg of The New York Times join KFF Health News\u2019 Julie Rovner to discuss these stories and more. Also this week, as part of our \u201cHow Would You Fix It?\u201d series, Rovner interviews Harvard public health professor David Blumenthal. <\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":99279322,"featured_media":2103181,"template":"","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"ep_exclude_from_search":false,"_classifai_error":"","_classifai_text_to_speech_error":"","apple_news_api_created_at":"","apple_news_api_id":"","apple_news_api_modified_at":"","apple_news_api_revision":"","apple_news_api_share_url":"","apple_news_cover_media_provider":"image","apple_news_coverimage":0,"apple_news_coverimage_caption":"","apple_news_cover_video_id":0,"apple_news_cover_video_url":"","apple_news_cover_embedwebvideo_url":"","apple_news_is_hidden":"","apple_news_is_paid":"","apple_news_is_preview":"","apple_news_is_sponsored":"","apple_news_maturity_rating":"","apple_news_metadata":"\"\"","apple_news_pullquote":"","apple_news_pullquote_position":"","apple_news_slug":"","apple_news_sections":[],"apple_news_suppress_video_url":false,"apple_news_use_image_component":false,"kaiser_health_news_podcast_links":{"appleUrl":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/what-the-health-from-kff-health-news\/id1253607372","spotifyUrl":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/32EdsB662C3oyIrqLMmBXI?si=TQhRjzzLTgWtK3crfbOFtA","nprUrl":"https:\/\/app.npr.org\/aggregation\/fis-1269164038","youtubeUrl":"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/playlist?list=PL5Qew-7pSXbAucCUQnyRx6qpLglzrxzFb"},"kaiser_health_news_podcast_season":"0","kaiser_health_news_podcast_episode":"443","kaiser_health_news_podcast_iframe":"https:\/\/play.prx.org\/e?ge=prx_14448_9ff4f719-e5ea-48db-a130-442d9949bc87&uf=https%3A%2F%2Fwhatthehealth.feeds.wamu.org","search_keywords":"","funders_suppress":false,"funders_override_text":false,"funders_override_text_content":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[5004,28006],"tags":[439530914,439532007,303200762,303277465,4755,439524286,439524171,303322937,84540],"podcast-series":[439529204],"content-types":[439530842],"funder":[439529608],"series":[],"partner":[],"coauthors":[259825698],"class_list":["post-2229462","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-mental-health","category-public-health","tag-cdc","tag-covid","tag-drugs","tag-hhs","tag-multimedia","tag-podcast","tag-trump-administration","tag-congress","tag-vaccines","podcast-series-what-the-health","content-types-podcast","funder-bill-and-melinda-gates-foundation"],"pp_statuses_selecting_workflow":false,"pp_workflow_action":"current","pp_status_selection":"publish","pp_force_visibility":null,"pp_subpost_visibility":null,"pp_inherited_force_visibility":null,"pp_inherited_subpost_visibility":null,"pp_post_mime_type":"","apple_news_notices":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO Premium plugin v27.3 (Yoast SEO v27.3) - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-premium-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>RFK Jr. vs. Congress - KFF Health News<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. completed his tour of House and Senate committees this week, ostensibly to promote President Donald Trump\u2019s budget proposal for his department but also to answer for some of his more controversial positions, particularly on vaccines. Meanwhile, Trump signed an order to facilitate the use of hallucinogens to treat mental health conditions. Victoria Knight of Bloomberg Government, Alice Miranda Ollstein of Politico, and Sheryl Gay Stolberg of The New York Times join KFF Health News\u2019 Julie Rovner to discuss these stories and more. Also this week, as part of our \u201cHow Would You Fix It?\u201d series, Rovner interviews Harvard public health professor David Blumenthal.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/podcast\/what-the-health-443-rfk-robert-kennedy-jr-congress-hearings-april-23-2026\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"RFK Jr. vs. Congress - KFF Health News\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. completed his tour of House and Senate committees this week, ostensibly to promote President Donald Trump\u2019s budget proposal for his department but also to answer for some of his more controversial positions, particularly on vaccines. Meanwhile, Trump signed an order to facilitate the use of hallucinogens to treat mental health conditions. Victoria Knight of Bloomberg Government, Alice Miranda Ollstein of Politico, and Sheryl Gay Stolberg of The New York Times join KFF Health News\u2019 Julie Rovner to discuss these stories and more. Also this week, as part of our \u201cHow Would You Fix It?\u201d series, Rovner interviews Harvard public health professor David Blumenthal.\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/podcast\/what-the-health-443-rfk-robert-kennedy-jr-congress-hearings-april-23-2026\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"KFF Health News\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2026-04-24T14:59:55+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/8\/2025\/12\/WTH-3x2_2025.jpg\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"3840\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"2560\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\\\/\\\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/kffhealthnews.org\\\/podcast\\\/what-the-health-443-rfk-robert-kennedy-jr-congress-hearings-april-23-2026\\\/\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/kffhealthnews.org\\\/podcast\\\/what-the-health-443-rfk-robert-kennedy-jr-congress-hearings-april-23-2026\\\/\",\"name\":\"RFK Jr. vs. Congress - KFF Health News\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/kffhealthnews.org\\\/#website\"},\"primaryImageOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/kffhealthnews.org\\\/podcast\\\/what-the-health-443-rfk-robert-kennedy-jr-congress-hearings-april-23-2026\\\/#primaryimage\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/kffhealthnews.org\\\/podcast\\\/what-the-health-443-rfk-robert-kennedy-jr-congress-hearings-april-23-2026\\\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"https:\\\/\\\/kffhealthnews.org\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/sites\\\/8\\\/2025\\\/12\\\/WTH-3x2_2025.jpg\",\"datePublished\":\"2026-04-23T18:20:00+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2026-04-24T14:59:55+00:00\",\"description\":\"HHS Secretary Robert F. 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